Talk:Aliens (film)

"Alien 2" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Alien 2 has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 February 1 § Alien 2 until a consensus is reached. InfiniteNexus (talk) 20:18, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Revision 1214818042

Since another editor defended the questionable writing and unsourced claims, I'm adding why I changed them below:

About "along with those of Bill Paxton and Jenette Goldstein". Article only states: "Most of the cast was also praised, particularly Biehn, Goldstein, Henriksen, Henn and Reiser". As one can see, no point of highlighting Biehn and Goldstein when there are others mentioned with them.

As for the image: "Sigourney Weaver's performance as Ellen Ripley received critical acclaim (unsourced claim), earning her a nomination for the Academy Award for Best Actress. Her nomination was considered a milestone since the Academy paid little attention to science fiction films since its inception." This text is mentioned again in Accolades section, where it actually belongs: "Weaver's (pictured in 1989) Academy Award nomination for Best Actress was considered a milestone when the Academy paid little attention to science fiction." The editor insists on writing the same thing over and over with different pictures.

And lastly, "mostly rave reviews" is directly taken from the source, it's a verbatim quote. "generally positive reviews" is actually an "interpretation" of it. ภץאคгöร 13:40, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Why have you posted the same discussion across two pages? I said remove Paxton and Goldstein if you wanted, just stop changing the rest. Generally positive reviews isn't an interpretation, it's a neutral statement, whereas your edit note said it should be interpreted as "critical praise". Generally positive and generally negative are the terms we tend to rely on because they're neutral. "Mostly rave" doesn't mean the same thing to every person. If you have an issue with text in the image, remove the text not the image? I didn't add the text or notice it but I know I don't need to remove the image to remove the text. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 14:06, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

My note didn't say that, I use directly from the source, not "generally positive", which is nowhere to be found in the ref. Why keep the image without text, even though Weaver's picture is already on the page? Should we fill the page with images that have no description? What empty excuses... ภץאคгöร 14:18, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

The image had and now has a different text. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 14:40, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Just as a quick aside for everyone, the Reception section on most film articles uses somewhat standardized terminology - positive, negative, or (rarely) mixed. It's meant to be in Wikipedia's voice, so we wouldn't normally quote something like "mostly rave reviews" as the sum-up. NekoKatsun (nyaa) 14:55, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

paul reiser deserves better than this

"Aliens was Reiser's first major theatrical role, following small parts in films like Beverly Hills Cop (1984)"

his part in BHC wasn't 'small', but never mind that- his first major role was in 'diner'.

duncanrmi (talk) 20:57, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

The source quotes him as saying "I'd done both Beverly Hills Cops, big films, but I was only a tiny part," he recalls. "Aliens was a whole new level that made me understand what it's like to be in a hit." I see where you're coming from regarding his role in Diner; perhaps there's a better way to word this sentence? Any suggestions? NekoKatsun (nyaa) 22:46, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

Perhaps something like "Prior to Aliens, Reiser said he only had small roles in big budget films such as Beverly Hills Cops.? Andrzejbanas (talk) 17:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Cast's billing order

The cast section has a debatable order that doesn't reflect neither the end credits billing nor the actual character's relevance. Vasquez is not an "also with", she's a major character with a distinctive look that survives through the final act. Whereas Frost doesn't even have much screen time and dies early. The end credits billing is as follows: Ripley, Newt, Hicks, Burke, Bishop, Hudson, Gorman, Vasquez, Apone, Drake, Frost, Ferro, Spunkmeyer, Dietrich, Crowe, Wierzbowski. Kumagoro-42 (talk) 03:54, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

It's per the opening billing, the end credits is just a list, where is the cut off? Where we determine who stops being important? Following the opening billing is fair, it shouldn't be based on whom we deem important. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 10:48, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Basically agreed with DWB. If we measured it strictly by screen time, it would suggest someone who is killed in Aliens right away is less important, but I don't think it can be boiled down to basic math. Generally, while not a rule, I try to apply a cast based on the scale of the article, and I sort of ask myself (do I mention this character regularly in the plot? do I mention this character in the production? do I mention them in the reception?) The kind of helps put real world values into the weight. Not a wiki rule, but maybe something that would help persuade others for something that feels appropriate in terms of wiki rules. Andrzejbanas (talk) 13:38, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Edit War Brewing

It appears that DarkWarriorBlake is attempting to subvert any edits to the plot summary. After reviewing the Edit History, he has continuously reverted any editor's changes. This shows a pattern of protection and a sense of "ownership." The previous plot summary was overly long and riddled with unnecessary details, unimportant links, and overall weak prose. Per Wiki requirements, move summaries are supposed to be brief and only cover main plot points, not describe every scene/sequence in the film, list every technical aspect, describe the scenery, etc. PNW Raven (talk) 18:42, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

For context, here's the current version and the previous version. So, which version should we use? Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 18:45, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

That's like, just your opinion, man. I did 2 reverts and you have immediately gone bad faith in accusing me of ownership, which is unbecoming of someone who has been here as long as you. Additionally, there are multiple editors reverting in the edit history because it's typically a target for poor edit quality or vandalism, cherry picking my edits is not a solid foundation for an argument. Featured Articles are held to a higher standard for large scale changes, so if your reversion is challenged, then you are to open a discussion. That's ignoring the basic common courtesy of WP: BRD, so you are currently violating multiple guidelines because you prefer your version, and you're WP: EDITWARRING over it. Maybe take a cooler head, undo your reversion, and come here to discuss. I was willing to talk to you and mediate on possible changes, you do not seem to be amenable to any kind of collaboration? Just bruce force? Darkwarriorblake (talk) 18:51, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

No strong opinion either way, however I will say marine is not a proper noun and shouldn't be capitalised unless it's specifically US Colonial Marines or the like. Yes in the current world the USMC style guide capitalises it, and it's commonly used in that context, but these are not the USMC and just referring to the marines or a marin should not be capitalised. You don't capitalise sailors, soldiers, airmen etc. Canterbury Tail talk 18:55, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

Canterbury Tail, so should corporal and private also not be capitalized? Darkwarriorblake (talk) 19:26, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

Captialised when it's being used in a title, but not as a rank. i.e. Corporal Hicks is capitalised, but not Hicks is a corporal. It's fine for Private Drake, but not the private. Canterbury Tail talk 19:41, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

You didn't wait to discuss. You just immediately did a revert and dismissed any attempt to improve the article. It's not required to discuss improvements that does not radically change the nature of the article. And I do see a pattern of you immediately reverting other editor's improvements. PNW Raven (talk) 18:58, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

Yes, per the aforementioned criteria and WP: STATUSQUO I reverted to the last stable version. What you may consider other's improvements clearly weren't, since I reverted them or others did, and noone put them back. As you'll no doubt have noticed, in the last 18 months of edits there are no notes in the summaries regarding Edit Warring, so your stance does not seem to hold a great deal of water. As mentioned, this is a Featured ARticle and a heavily monitored one at that due to the film's popularity, so non-constructive edits are removed fairly fast. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 19:03, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

FYI i have placed an edit warring warning on PNW's page, as he's now reverted a separate editor. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 19:15, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

A "separate" editor? I suspect someone you recruited or an additional account. PNW Raven (talk) 19:43, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

Are you seriously making the accusation that myself and @NekoKatsun: are sock or meat puppets? I think you may have gotten a little too invested in this for now and should walk away for a bit. Canterbury Tail talk 19:44, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

Jeezy creezy I'm a tiny little infant baby editor compared to you two! NekoKatsun (nyaa) 19:52, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

That's a fairly unfair accusation against two long-term editors and hard working contributors. As I said, Aliens is a very highly monitored article due to its popularity. Plus you will see the odd fight between myself and Canterbury Tail (a long time ago) which would be pretty elaborate setup for a sock. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 20:06, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

I prefer the term "creative disagreement". Canterbury Tail talk 20:08, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

If no one minds, and this might make it easier to discuss anyways, I've put together both versions and what I'd suggest for each paragraph. Thoughts? NekoKatsun (nyaa) 20:15, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

A comparison

Status quo Proposed change Suggested version Ellen Ripley has been in stasis for 57 years aboard an escape shuttle after destroying her ship, the Nostromo, to escape an alien creature that slaughtered the rest of the crew. She is rescued and debriefed by her employers at the Weyland-Yutani Corporation, who are skeptical of her claim about alien eggs in a derelict ship on the exomoon LV-426, now the site of a terraforming colony. Ellen Ripley is found in stasis aboard a space shuttle 57 years after destroying her ship, the Nostromo, to escape an alien creature that killed her crew. She is debriefed by Weyland-Yutani Corporation representatives who doubt her claim about alien eggs on the exomoon LV-426, now the site of a terraforming colony. Ellen Ripley has been in stasis for 57 years aboard an escape shuttle after destroying her ship, the Nostromo, to escape an alien creature that killed the rest of the crew. After rescue, she is debriefed by her employers at the Weyland-Yutani Corporation, who are skeptical of her claim about alien eggs in a derelict ship on the exomoon LV-426, now the site of a terraforming colony. After contact is lost with the colony, Weyland-Yutani representative Carter Burke and Colonial Marine Lieutenant Gorman ask Ripley to accompany them to investigate. Still traumatized by her alien encounter, she agrees on the condition that they exterminate the creatures. Ripley is introduced to the Colonial Marines on the spaceship Sulaco but is distrustful of their android, Bishop, because the android aboard the Nostromo had betrayed its crew to protect the alien on company orders. After contact is lost with the LV-426 colony, Weyland-Yutani representative Carter Burke and Colonial Marine Lieutenant Gorman ask Ripley to accompany them to investigate. She agrees on condition they exterminate the creatures. Ripley meets the Colonial Marines on the spaceship Sulaco but distrusts the android, Bishop, because the android aboard the Nostromo betrayed its crew to collect an alien for the company. After contact is lost with the colony, Weyland-Yutani representative Carter Burke and Colonial Marine Lieutenant Gorman ask Ripley to accompany them to investigate. She agrees, but only on the condition that they exterminate the creatures. Ripley is introduced to the Colonial Marines on the spaceship Sulaco but distrusts their android, Bishop, because the android aboard the Nostromo had betrayed its crew to protect the alien on company orders. A dropship delivers the expedition to the surface of LV-426, where they find the battle-ravaged colony and two live alien facehuggers in containment tanks, but no bodies or colonists, except for a traumatized young girl nicknamed Newt. The team locates the colonists beneath the fusion-powered atmosphere processing station and heads to their location, descending into corridors covered in alien secretions. At the station's center, the Marines find opened eggs and dead facehuggers alongside the cocooned colonists, now serving as incubators for the creatures' offspring. The Marines kill an infant alien after it bursts from a colonist's chest, rousing several adult aliens who ambush the Marines, killing or capturing many of them. When the inexperienced Gorman panics, Ripley assumes command, takes control of their armored personnel carrier, and rams the nest to rescue Corporal Dwayne Hicks and Privates Hudson and Vasquez. Hicks orders the dropship to recover the survivors, but a stowaway alien kills the pilots, causing the dropship to crash into the station. Almost out of ammunition and resources, the survivors barricade themselves inside the colony. A dropship lands on LV-426 where the crew find the battle-ravaged colony and two live alien facehuggers in containment tanks. The only colonist found is a traumatized young girl nicknamed Newt. The other colonists are eventually located beneath the fusion-powered atmosphere processing station. The Marines drive to their location, descending into corridors covered in alien secretions. The Marines find opened eggs and dead facehuggers alongside the barely-alive, cocooned colonists, who are now incubators for the alien offspring. The Marines kill an infant alien after it bursts from a colonist's chest. Several adult aliens ambush the Marines, killing or capturing many. When the inexperienced Gorman panics, Ripley assumes command and rams the armored personnel carrier into the nest to rescue Corporal Dwayne Hicks, Privates Hudson, and Vasquez. Hicks orders the dropship to recover the survivors, but a stowaway alien kills the pilots, causing the dropship to crash. Low on ammunition and resources, the survivors barricade themselves inside the colony. A dropship lands on LV-426, where the marines find signs of a major battle and two live alien facehuggers in containment tanks, but no bodies or colonists, except for a traumatized young girl called Newt. After locating the colonists beneath the fusion-powered atmosphere processing station, the marines make their way the station's center, where they find opened eggs and dead facehuggers alongside the cocooned colonists. The marines kill an infant alien after it bursts from a colonist's chest, rousing several adult aliens who ambush the marines, killing or capturing many of them. When the inexperienced Gorman panics, Ripley takes control of their armored personnel carrier and rams the nest to rescue Corporal Dwayne Hicks and Privates Hudson and Vasquez. Hicks orders the dropship to recover the survivors, but a stowaway alien kills the pilots, causing the dropship to crash. Almost out of ammunition and resources, the survivors barricade themselves inside the colony. Ripley discovers that Burke ordered the colonists to investigate the derelict spaceship containing the alien eggs, intending to profit by recovering them for biological weapon research. Before she can expose him, Bishop informs the group that the dropship crash damaged the power plant's cooling system, and the plant will soon overheat and explode, destroying the colony. He volunteers to travel to the colony transmitter and remotely pilot the Sulaco's remaining dropship to the surface. Ripley discovers that Burke ordered the colonists to investigate the derelict spaceship containing the alien eggs, intending to profit by recovering them for biological weapon research. Before she can expose him, Bishop informs the group that the dropship crash damaged the power plant's cooling system, and the plant will soon overheat and explode, destroying the colony. Bishop travels to the colony transmitter to remotely pilot the remaining dropship to the surface. Ripley discovers that Burke ordered the colonists to investigate the derelict spaceship containing the alien eggs, intending to profit by recovering them for biological weapon research. Before she can expose him, Bishop informs the group that the dropship crash damaged the power plant's cooling system, and the plant will soon overheat and explode, destroying the colony. He volunteers to travel to the colony transmitter to remotely pilot the remaining dropship to the surface. After falling asleep in the medical laboratory, Ripley and Newt awaken to find themselves trapped with the two released facehuggers. Ripley triggers a fire alarm to alert the Marines, who rescue them and kill the creatures. She accuses Burke of releasing the facehuggers to implant her and Newt with alien embryos, allowing him to smuggle them through Earth's quarantine. The power is suddenly cut, and aliens attack through the ceiling. In the ensuing firefight, the aliens kill Burke, subdue Hudson, and injure Hicks; the cornered Gorman and Vasquez sacrifice themselves to avoid capture. Newt is separated from Ripley and taken by the creatures. Ripley brings Hicks to Bishop in the second dropship, but she refuses to abandon Newt and arms herself before descending into the processing station hive alone to rescue her. During their escape, they encounter the alien queen surrounded by dozens of eggs, and when one begins to open, Ripley uses her weapons to destroy them all and the queen's ovipositor. Pursued by the enraged queen, Ripley and Newt join Bishop and Hicks on the dropship and escape moments before the station explodes, consuming the colony in a nuclear blast. Ripley and Newt find are trapped with the two released facehuggers. Ripley triggers a fire alarm and the Marines rescue them and kill the creatures. She accuses Burke of releasing the facehuggers to implant her and Newt with alien embryos to smuggle them through Earth's quarantine. The aliens attack through the ceiling. In the ensuing firefight, the aliens kill Burke, subdue Hudson, and injure Hicks; the cornered Gorman and Vasquez sacrifice themselves to avoid capture. Newt is separated from Ripley and taken by the creatures. Riple refuses to abandon Newt and arms herself before descending into the processing station hive alone to rescue her. During their escape, they encounter the alien queen surrounded by dozens of eggs. Ripley destroys the eggs. Pursued by the enraged queen, Ripley and Newt make it to the upper platform and are picked up by Bishop in the dropship. They, along with Hicks, escape moments before the station explodes, consuming the colony in a nuclear blast. After falling asleep in the medical laboratory, Ripley and Newt awaken to find themselves trapped with the two released facehuggers. Ripley triggers a fire alarm to alert the marines, who rescue them and kill the creatures. She accuses Burke of releasing the facehuggers to implant her and Newt with alien embryos in order to smuggle them through Earth's quarantine, but before they can act on this, the aliens cut the power and attack through the ceiling, killing Burke, subduing Hudson, and injuring Hicks; Gorman and Vasquez sacrifice themselves to avoid capture. Newt is separated from Ripley and taken by the creatures. Ripley brings Hicks to Bishop in the second dropship, but she refuses to abandon Newt and arms herself before descending into the processing station hive alone to rescue her. While escaping, they encounter the alien queen surrounded by dozens of eggs, and when one begins to open, Ripley uses her weapons to destroy them all and the queen's ovipositor. Pursued by the enraged queen, Ripley and Newt return to the dropship and escape moments before the station explodes, consuming the colony in a nuclear blast. Aboard the Sulaco, the group is ambushed by the queen, who stowed away in the dropship's landing gear. The queen tears Bishop in half and advances on Newt, but Ripley fights the creature with an exosuit cargo loader and expels it through an airlock into space while the damaged Bishop keeps Newt safe. Ripley, Newt, Hicks, and Bishop then enter hypersleep for their return trip to Earth. Aboard the Sulaco, the group is ambushed by the queen, who stowed away in the dropship's landing gear. The queen tears Bishop in half and advances on Newt, but Ripley battles the creature with an exosuit cargo loader and expels it through an airlock into space while the damaged Bishop protects Newt. Ripley, Newt, Hicks, and Bishop then enter hypersleep for the return to Earth. Aboard the Sulaco, the group is ambushed by the queen, who stowed away in the dropship's landing gear. The queen tears Bishop in half and advances on Newt, but Ripley fights the creature with an exosuit cargo loader and expels it through an airlock into space while the damaged Bishop protects Newt. Ripley, Newt, Hicks, and Bishop then enter hypersleep for their return to Earth.